"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/18/2014 at 00:16 • Filed to: RANTS
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"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/18/2014 at 00:16 • Filed to: RANTS | 11
| 17 |
Don't buy into BMW's hype machine
IT IS NOT A NEW MATERIAL, IT'S JUST A MORE PROPER WAY OF DESCRIBING "CARBON FIBER"
Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic isn't new, it's just carbon fiber. Unless BMW came up with something new and then used the same name that's been used for years , it's not new, stop saying it's new, stop believing everything BMW tells you
A little better explanation: composite materials like carbon fiber, fiberglass, and aramids like Kevlar are called composites for a reason. It's a composition of a material and a matrix. The material is typically some form of fiber, such as carbon fiber or fiberglass. This fiber is often woven into sheets of material.
In the case of 'carbon fiber' as it's so commonly called the raw fiber is carbon fiber . A carbon fiber 'weave' is literally a piece of cloth: it feels like cloth, it looks like cloth, it behaves a bit like softened straw. It's kinda nasty stuff, you really don't want a carbon splinter.
'But Jake' you are saying, wondering why I'm ranting 'that's not carbon fiber, carbon fiber is hard and stiff and stronger than steel'
No, it is not. Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic is. You take your carbon fiber weave and impregnate it with an epoxy based resin. This resin hardens, typically through the application of heat and pressure in a tool called an 'autoclave'. It's sort of like firing clay in a kiln, the resin hardens into plastic. Yes, plastic. It's an epoxy based plastic but it has many of the same properties as the plastic in the coke bottle you drank from earlier.
The plastic holds the carbon fiber together. It's called a 'matrix'. The actual load in the part (should) travel along the fibers, but without the plastic matrix the fibers would just move, you know, like cloth
Which actually raises another point that makes me angry, you have to use carbon fiber properly for it to really be 'stronger than steel'. Carbon fiber is really freakishly strong when it's loaded in the fiber direction, but if you load it through the matrix it's not strong at all. Carbon fiber is also pretty terrible at taking impact damage, so I wouldn't bother paying extra for a carbon fiber phone case if I was you. But that's another discussion to be saved for another day
In conclusion, TL;DR: when someone starts talking about 'carbon fiber reinforced plastic' as if it's a new material (looking at you BMW), tell them to shove off and stop lying for marketing purposes because it isn't new to call something by its actual name instead of the colloquial term for it.
/endrant
Montalvo
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 00:24 |
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Yeah, as soon as someone says carbon fiber people just start going crazy. Thanks for reminding me about carbon fiber splinters... I have had too much experience with those. That and the dust from carbon sanding too. Awesome material but a pain in the ass and always trying to find a way to kill me. Seriously, by the time I mixed the resin, infuse it into the weave, layer it and sand it, there should be enough fumes and air contaminants to do some serious respiratory damage. The ventilation needed for that stuff is tremendous.
ihm96
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 00:25 |
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I now know more about carbon fiber, thanks. This was a good rant
IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 00:26 |
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yesyesyesyesyesyesyes.
YES!
Brian Silvestro
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 00:27 |
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Battery Tender Unnecessary
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 00:27 |
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The BMW M1 had carbon fiber reinforced plastic body panels back in the 70s and BMW referred to them as such. The "new" part of the body panels of the i8 and i3 is the method they use to produce them. Instead of hand-adapting the fabric and curing in large ovens for hours they've come up with a faster "mass-production" method that reduces costs and time. I don't think they're implying that CFRP is new, just that the process is.
Jedidiah
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 00:28 |
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As a young engineer striving for a materials science degree, I approve this message.
Yossarian
> Battery Tender Unnecessary
02/18/2014 at 00:53 |
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This. BMW isn't making a big deal about carbon fiber (and BTW carbon fiber reinforced plastic isn't something BMW originally made up), they're making a big deal about having a car costing $40-$50k having a carbon fiber body. That's a pretty big deal. No one else is currently making a car at that price point and using carbon fiber to that extent. Think of what this means in the future. It means all of their cars becoming lighter.
And I'm sure BMW has done the engineering needed to ensure the carbon fiber is strong enough in a crash. They've spent 2 billion dollars to ensure that.
Raphael Orlove
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 01:38 |
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oy, yeah, this is some real bad journalism here, or at least that's how it comes cross in his video
BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 05:25 |
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It bugs me as well when marketing departments essentially make things up.
Also, I'd like to know what BMW's technique for low-cost CFRP is. They're heralding that as 'new', but McLaren and Alfa Romeo have both done low-cost CFRP before them. If it's the same technique as either, then it's not new. Even if they came up with it independently.
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Jayhawk Jake
> Raphael Orlove
02/18/2014 at 08:00 |
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In fairness to Autoweek, he's not the first person that's said the same line. I've heard it at least 3 times when reading articles/watching videos about the i3
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Jayhawk Jake
> Battery Tender Unnecessary
02/18/2014 at 08:01 |
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In that case reviewers should make a point to actually say that, rather than blindly spouting 'new material'
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Jayhawk Jake
> Yossarian
02/18/2014 at 08:03 |
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While I may have attacked BMW as a hype machine, really I'm ranting about reviewers/media outlets that just drool at the words 'carbon fiber' as if it's something new or the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Sure, the i3 is one of the cheapest cars to hit the market with tons of carbon fiber, but it's not the only one in that price range. The Alfa 4C is in the same ballpark on price and has a carbon tub.
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Jayhawk Jake
> Montalvo
02/18/2014 at 08:04 |
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It's not even just the carbon fiber itself that can be nasty, I believe some components of the resin are known carcinogens. Don't quote me on that though...
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Raphael Orlove
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 09:28 |
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true
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Montalvo
> Jayhawk Jake
02/18/2014 at 10:47 |
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The carbon becomes nasty if you have too much contact on your skin. It makes your whole arm itchy as hell, and when it needs to be sanded it kicks up a lot of dust that gets everywhere. The components for the resin do give off serious fumes, if you don't have the proper ventillation it will cause damage. Most resin mixtures are extremely hazardous to the enviroment and need to be properly disposed of or stored when finished.
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Jayhawk Jake
> Montalvo
02/18/2014 at 11:16 |
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Yeah, I've worked with it. Even after wearing gloves and long sleeves my arm still itched like a mother effer after I was done.
Stef Schrader
> Montalvo
02/18/2014 at 15:27 |
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Y'know, the thought of carbon fiber splinters is making me doubt my need for a carbon fiber toilet.
...
Okay, no. That's a risk I'd be willing to take. Because racetoilet.